Wow. So today has been a busy day. I'm not really sure where to begin. I'm way high now on drugs so I'm not exactly what I would call clear headed, but I will try to respond to some of the points Mr. Horn made on his blog posting.
BlogCFC 4.0.2 via the Rabid_BlogCFC has been removed from my servers as a downloadable item. It seems the orginal author via his proxies wanted me to keep the changes to myself so I shall.
I have spent most of today either in pain, or in some blissful place called Hyrocodone. I have not sent anyone out to attack you. I've been monitoring the situation, but that is all. I have no proxies. I have no cronies. I have no henchmen. (Although it would be kinda cool to have some. Weeg, want to be my henchman??) I have barely been able to focus on my work so trust me - I'm not organizing any kind of attack.
Kudos to the original author(s) of BlogCFC for making such a great product only thing for me is that I wasn't smart enough to be able to use it successfully without making some changes that I shall now take to my grave, so to speak.
I'm not sure what you mean. If you ran into problems with the software, you can always email me. I do not always respond, but I do make an effort to respond to support requests. Ditto with change requests. People send me ideas. Sometimes I like them. Sometimes I don't. I guess my projects aren't really a democracy, but I'm ok with that, and I think most of my users trust me to use my best judgement when it comes to responding to requests. I apply the same filtering to CFLib, the cookbook, and other sites. I applied the same filtering when I managed the community source for Spectra at Macromedia.
Personally I think the real deal was that the original author's code was beginning to leok less than professional alongside the changes I had made however the original author failed to contact me concerning how he could obtain the changces I made which I would have shared with him freely.
As I said above - if you emailed me and said you had made a change, I may or may not incorporate it. It doesn't mean your changes are bad. I just may not think they are appropriate. It is not a science. It is just my gut feeling. Frankly I think what you said was a low blow. I have said on more than one occasion that BlogCFC is not perfect. I really do not like the UberCFC approach I used. (UberCFC is what I'm calling the method of storing all the business logic into one CFC.) In fact, at CFUnited I plan on talking about this and how I would rebuild the blog a bit differently. But to imply that I had folks attack you out of jealousy is a lie. I do not pretend to write the best code out there. In fact, the whole CF Jedi Master thing is more a reflection of me being a SW geek then me thinking I'm a "Master" developer.
That being said - let me talk abit about my license, or lack thereof. I've been sharing ColdFusion code for a very, very long time. It started with custom tags at the old Allaire tag gallery. The first real "project" that I shared was BlogCFC. I share code because I love ColdFusion. I've loved CF since the first day I used instead of Perl. I think it is the best damn language on the planet. In fact, if Ben Forta ever gets a package from me, he should ensure that it isn't ticking - as I'd love to steal his job and spread the CF love around the world.
That being said - I am more concerned with getting my code out there to the world then worrying about legal crap. That is 100% my fault, and I admit it. I guess now I'm going to find some silly license and actually cut and paste it into my zips now. I didn't want to worry about it. I didn't think I had to. I guess I was fooling myself.
I want to make one final point. Every single application I have released has had some kind of help from others. I believe Michael Dinowitz called me the "King" of CF Open Source. Well - I would certainly not be there if not for the constant submissions of fixes, suggestions, and ideas from others. So - for everyone out there praising me - praise yourselves as well. This is a great community. Not a perfect one - but good enough for me.
Archived Comments
"In fact, if Ben Forta ever gets a package from me"... woa dude watch out... Bush signed some laws that make that sorta comment illegal ;)
listen here ray ray...
me and tango, and brannon hightower are READY whenever, wherever you may need us :)
tw
The funniest thing about all of this is the guys self assigned moniker "The Rabid CF Developer". According to the Emedicine Health website, signs and symptoms of rabies include:
"Animals infected with rabies may appear sick, crazed, or vicious. This is the origin of the phrase "mad dog." However, animals infected with rabies may also appear overly friendly, docile, or confused."
I love irony!
ray, sorry you had to go thru this sort of nonsense, pretty low down but at least the community "healed itself" when it knee-capped this clown. all those "proxies" attacking that guy, the "borg of blogs" indeed ;-)
You don't actually need to put a copyright notice on your work for it to be copyrighted, though it does help remind people that they did not develop the software. I have found that the Creative Commons licenses are minimally evasive and they have a fancy form to help you get the right license for what you want to protect (http://creativecommons.org/....
Excellent post, Ray. We know who "The Originator" is!
Ray Horn...hey, isn't he the guy that missed the field goal in Ace Ventura? Oh wait, that was Ray Finkle...same loser :P
I agree with that you are the "King" of CF Open Source. I don't know how you do it w/o it being your full time job.
So is Ray calling the CF Community cronies? Is so, i'll take that label - hell yea! Camden's Cronies - we protect our own kind!
Big question is are you going to share your drugs.
Ross, no, Ray Horn is the famous magician with the ambiguous sexual orientation who was mauled by a tiger.
No, wait...that was Roy Horn...nevermind.
and hell, ill even invite scott stewart, as he is the resident black belt!
and scott. that was my first question, but didnt post it :)
share the meds ray, share the meds!
Ray,
actually you do not need the Creative Commons License. By default your work meets those criteria. I don't have the specific legal stuff in front of me but here is a link to John Dvorak discussing just this http://www.pcmag.com/articl...
Well so long as you don't stop developing your wonderful apps. Cool. Also why didn't he just ask. Mmmm, odd.
People like Ray Horn probably believe that any publicity is good publicity, so he must be thrilled with today's blogsphere.
Ray (Camden), you know you have friends/followers that look for you. Keep it up.
-Rob
Very nice post, Ray. I'm sorry if my actions made you take any flak - I wasn't trying to act as a henchmen, just as another OSS CF developer. If one project it infringed upon without notice, they day I run into trouble with one of my gets closer.
Proxy/henchmen/crony,
Joe
Let's move on!
Can we lay off the slams on Ray Horn? He made several mistakes, did his best to apologize, and has rescinded his version of Ray's software. Sure, you might not like how he worded things, but I think it is time we let it drop and move on.
Doesn't Mystic come out soon? And CFDJ's framework comparison! Lets talk about those things instead
sorry dan, a little miffed by the lack of launch today?
anyway, its our ray's blog and we can bitch if we want to!
dont mess with one of ours, and we wont bitch.
like i always say, if you didnt want to read the news, dont pick up the paper.
and really, im not that harsh, just hate when people tell people to stop doing something. we are adults, we are not residents of china, and no one can tell us what to do.
sorry.
tw
I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't consider what Ray Horn did/said/typed to be an apology.
The problem is he doesn't see (or doesn't want to see) why we are all enraged by his unethical actions. Until that time, any 'apology' is suspect, at best.
Ray,
When you get a chance, if you are looking for licenses for your CF items, you may want to check out the Creative Commons LGPL license at http://creativecommons.org/...
It provides a nice (readable) CC wrapper for the LGPL and the text (linkage) to place in your files that links back to the CC site for the actual verbage. Not much work to include, since CC (and FSF) have done the bulk already.
Just a thought.
TC
>> In fact, if Ben Forta ever gets a package from me,
>> he should ensure that it isn't ticking - as I'd love
>> to steal his job and spread the CF love around the world.
Um, thanks, I think. ;-)
Guess this means I can't get any 'Rabid BlogCFC' over-priced, underwhelming bug support, or is he selling this through 'Rapid Lighthuse Pro'? If not, can somebody tell me what this encrypted code business is all about? I'm a newbie and I want to sell somebody else's code, too. For free. Or not. Sigh. I'm SO confused. I must have rabies. Bummer.
Tony,
Call me Danny or Daniel. Anyone who ever calls me just 'Dan' ends up oweing me money.
As for being miffed over lack of launch, I'm still trying to get over the fact that after watching moon landings as a little kid, we still don't have a colony on the moon! Who the heck stole my future?!?
Anyway, I can certainly understand everyone's fury, but I think things started to get a little bit heated. Sure, it is good to get this out into the open, but the personal attacks just started to look a little too personal. If I wanted that kind of flame-war, I could just go to any PHP, CFMX, .NET, Java, or whatever forum and slam an other language/app and say they were fading away or sucked for reason x. Instant flame-war. Lots of ranting and insults, and always an amusing read.
But an internal flame war? Self-defeating if you ask me.
daniel,
not sure how i could ever owe you money, but whatever.
im mad at the launch too :(
fury is fun. arguing is fun. anger is a gift. i guess we all hope he reads it and understands how wrong he might have been. support for ray makes the naysayers look worse!
yes, internal flame wars are moronic!
Right On Ray!!!
We are here to support you and if you need any kind of black ops, let us know!!
Henchmen #77
I think Ray Horn must have visited the coldfusion cookbook. One of the latest entries is 'How to Copy a Structure'...
Spare a thought for Ray C's sore arm... I'm sure slapping his side laughing isn't helping.
Today Ray Camden has showed himself to be less than professional !
Yesterday I at-least had some respect the the man but today this is not the case.
Ray - Can you please tell me what I did that you consider to be unprofessional? Please - just one thing. I responded to your allegations very politely. I pointed out that you were wrong about me sicking my "proxies" on you. I said it was a lie that I was worried about my code being unprofessional. I did not call you any names. I responded to your statements.
So again - please tell me where I was unprofessional. I will gladly apologize if so.
I'd just ignore him Ray, he's just pissed someone called him on charging for modifications to an open source application. You'll just have to start placing a license in your distributions that states if your code is used in any project that it needs to be released as open source or never released to the public.
I wonder how much of the other projects on his page will end up having open source code he's borrowed, added on to and then wants to sell. Let's see if he ever actually designs, codes and releases anything that is truly his own work from the ground up and then he can brag on his excellent coding abilities. I also wonder why he's afraid to turn on comments for his blog... afraid of criticism?
ray horn.
i think if you knew ray, you would take some of the things he said in jest, as they were meant. thats just how ray is. he is world class person, coder and overall kind fella. as you saw, we all stepped up to the plate for him, regardless of anything. that to me, speaks volumes. maybe take a step back, be non-rabid, be a bit open-minded, and realize that maybe this isnt so serious, its cool... ray is cool, its all good man. really.
and no, im no henchman, fuck im a golfing computer geek. the hardest thing i can hit might be a driver to about 345 or so. its all good. ease up on ray.
peace
" If you ran into problems with the software, you can always email me. I do not always respond, but I do make an effort to respond to support requests. Ditto with change requests. People send me ideas."
I can vouch for that fact. I remember Ray making some bug fixes within 10 mins of a blogCFC release specifically to a db issue and so has been the case for incorporating new ideas.
I really ask myself if this kind of blogs do have a place in MXNA.
His posts are becoming annoying an not really polite.
Ray, keep fighting the good fight!
I was always under the impression that one you write something (email, source code, article or novel) that it became your property and that you were protected legally against thefts and plagerism and such. Did I miss something?
StormTrooper #1536481418486
This guy has got to be a plant. Some anti-adobe/macromedia guy... I'm just not buying that anyone would be this overtly unlikeable.
After reading all the stuff in this fiasco I realize something hard to believe: Ray Horn is not a teenager! He's a middle-aged men (maybe with more than 45 years old) with 30 years in software industry (as he says)... My goodness... During my readings I thought he was one of these crazy boys that we usually see flaming around in mailists and forums. I swear! He looked to me just like a teenager, specially in his argumentation. I startet to feel sorry (as we all do bad things when we're young and arrogant) when I came up with his resume. I just can believe. That's worst than I thought.
I finally got around to reading this entry and I was struck with overwhelming disbelief. I went to the rayhorn website to get a firsthand glimpse at this individuals work. First thing I realized was that he is using blogCFC. Although, much like Vanilla Ice, he claims that his code is unique and different there is no doubt that he is violating U.S. copyright law and probably the DCMA. I found it humerous that an error that was generated on his site reads:
...\htdocs\rayhorn\blog\org\camden\blog\utils.cfc...
Hear the difference?