Posted in Misc | Posted on 06-04-2009 | 2,966 views
My buddy Todd Sharp pointed out something interesting to me today - the contact form on Ben Nadel's blog. Ben added a simple checkbox to let folks using the contact form signify if they are willing to hire him for professional services. I thought this was a good idea, and I've done something similar on my contact form.
I think the language I've added is fair. I definitely want to do my best to help readers. This isn't entirely a selfless move on my part. The questions that come in can many times be turned into great blog articles. At times though, the questions I get can be rather involved. I try to push back when that happens. Also, there are times when I simply can't respond for hours, days, even weeks. If a person has a question and they are willing to pay, I thought the checkbox might be a nice way for them to let me know.
So... what do you guys think? If you didn't know me from Adam and saw the form as it is now, would it scare you off? Be honest, I can take it. (Ok, I can't, I've got the ego of a 12 year old kid, but I'll pretend.)
Also, if people are willing to pay can you create a blog article out of it?
Free answers are what you get from StackOverflow and other forums, but shouldn't be anyone's expectation when s/he sends a "cold call" question to an individual, IMO.
However, how about "I'm willing to pay for your assistance" rather than "I'm willing to pay". I believe it sounds a little more professional.
$225/hour? Does anyone in this economy still have that kind of dough to shell out?
I would pay if I needed help, but what is pay?
I have purchased people stuff from Amazon Lists when they help my on Twitter without them asking etc.
Its hard to tick I'm willing to pay box because you dont know how much it would cost.
Perhaps the wording would be better. Something like
"If I am unable to assist you for free, would you like a quote"
I would tick this one almost every time, costs me nothing to see a quote. I have no issues with you assisting people for a fee, after all really all you sell is your time and your books.
@dale: its a contact form.... not a RFQ or contract. Its a starting point for discussing a project or question and allows Ray to manage/organize the queue.
Like you, I would probably not check the box unless I had an urgent need and needed a immediate response. Otherwise, waiting for his availability and showing gratitude through the wishlists may be a better alternative.
But it all comes down to the fact that his bank won't take the Star Wars DVD box set in lieu of his mortgage payment.
In my opion....I don't think that you will get use out of it and just may clutter the UI ? ....but hey...you never know :_)
I would change it to softer tone.
even
I would consider paying if you can't help for free.
Tick box, people who wouldn't dont tick it, I on the other hand, would think, well if this is going to take you 4 hours and $580 it might be worth it and would tick.
I must admit I didn't read the long blurb on the contact form that included the rate, I dont think many will.
$225 comes from Ben's form. Click the Ben's contact form in the post at top of page. Then click the checkbox and you will see "Yes, I want to invest $225 an hour to get this question answered professionally."
I would also review how you are using the word "your" throughout the form. If "you" is the person filling out the form, then it sounds like you, Raymond, are the one who may be willing to pay. Okay, so I was an English major in a former life :-)
From your contact form "My development rate is 145 an hour". 145 what?
It might be an idea to specify "USD". Remember not everyone is in The States.
Other than that, the wording and the idea itself is completely reasonable. I - for one - would have no problem paying you some dosh if I needed your help with something. It'd be money well spent.
--
Adam
By the way, I'm charging you all for your comments.
(Kidding.)
;-)
--
Adam
Just a note though, you spelled guarantee wrong in your note about the checkbox ;)
"guarantee" vice "gaurantee"
Good luck!
If I could afford it ...
I'd pay his rates
;)
@Ray ... On the head of the comment form ...
'Comments: Is this too much? (Change to Contact form)'
It doesn't provide a link to the Contact form ...
Is that correct?
Answers: $1
Short: $5
Correct: $25
Dumb looks are still free.
=/
@Ray, not to pile on the editorial, but you've also got a "very" where you want a "vary":
"Response times on questions can very from ..."
- cheers
Folks might want to take note that Ben's advertised rate isn't Ben's rate. It's Epicenter Consulting's rate. Epicenter is a business, and as such, incurs things like operating expenses, etc. This isn't a matter of Ben working for somebody else from 9 to 5, then going home and doing some "side work".
For a development firm (not -developer-, but rather -development firm-), in NYC I can assure you the advertised rate is more than fair.
I think it's also pretty cool that both Ben and Ray are putting the rates on the page up front. That takes a certain amount of testicular fortitude. They're potentially losing clients to whom they may never have had the opportunity to provide a sales pitch. But it's honest and straightforward and in the end, saves everybody time (assuming the potential client just wouldn't have had those kinds of funds available).
On a serious note, thank you every one for the feedback. I appreciate it.
I'm always interested in how my city compares to other areas, so when I used to get calls from small companies asking for a basic quicky ecommerce cart for $2000, they are now asking if I can do it for $600. Of course they also ask me if Joomla can do that for free.
So when I saw Ben's company rate, of course I was shocked that people still have that kind of dough to shell out.
If I'm not mistaken Ben operates out of New York City. Ray is located in Louisiana. I've been a consultant for a long time and I can tell you that geography, firm overhead and client size has a lot to do with rates. New York and California bill much higher per hour than say Indianapolis (where I live and work). I get your point about the economy and all but honestly your skills are worth whatever a competitive market will tolerate.
Personally, I think 145 is a fair rate for someone of my skill set. It is higher than average, but my skills are higher than average (boy I hope that doesn't sound as egotistical as it may).
First off, you should know that I have all of the respect in the world for you and your wide breadth of skills. You probably know that I have that respect from any of the following key indicators...
-Constant Compliments and Positive Support
-Buying crap off your wish list (probably on at least 3 different occasions)
-Being a daily visitor and commenter on this blog
-Buying damn near everything you've ever published and recommending it to others countless times both in person and on several websites
-Running ideas by you here and there via e-mail
(I have actually restructured large portions of projects based on some of the casual points that you've made so think hard before you speak! - LOL)
For all of your great attributes however, as far as this point is concerned you are flat out wrong and there are about 300 years worth of economic papers written by people much smarter than I'll ever be to prove it. I believe that much like me - part of you is very much an idealist and that is what has probably shaped your apparent belief that revenue and cost of goods sold for services is the same everywhere. The true fact of the matter is that what your potential consumer is willing to pay, what a competing entity charges for the same product or service, as well as the location (which directly affects the availability and cost of all resources including labor - which is the most volatile aspect of any economics equation) will all play a factor in how much something is sold for.
Do you think that US companies have moved all remote call centers to India and farmed development, engineering and support jobs out to the likes of India, China and Russia because we like them better than our own folks or because it is easy to communicate with them (it's not - trust me)?
You may have priced yourself at this rate because you took a few casual queries of what was out there and decided that you were worth X but if you were running a consulting firm with 20 guys just like yourself then there would be a lot more factored in than what you thought something was worth off the top of your head.
I could see a future where due to the remote nature of software development that standard pricing ranges come into play but for now it's just not a reality. I will concede that it could happen, but for now - rates for software development aren't as predictable and stable of a commodity as buying bandwidth, storage, funny t-shirts or phone service.
Now that you're pissed off - please return to the top of the post and remember the nice things that I said about you a moment ago - they're all true :)
I'll definitely admit to not being an economic theorist, nor even a businessman. (I'm a coder geek and proud.) I will say that it may not make sense to compare 300 years of economic theory with the world of the Internet. Obviously the Internet doesn't make all the theories go away (Ahem, we all remember the bust), but at the same time, I think some factors, location being one of them, have been modified at least. You mentioned other factors (what a client is willing to pay, what the competition charges) and I definitely agree with all of them of course.
I mean, consider movie stars. You don't where Tom Cruise gets his mail. You hire him. He works for you. Period. When he is done he goes back to whatever box the scientologists put him in. Shoot, most clients/potential clients who contact me don't even know where I live, nor do they ask typically. :)
I did read a recent article from an economist that posed an interesting theory in which he stated something to the effect of there being a new economic model where services were categorized and valued in only two ways - services that could be done over or wire vs. services that had to be performed in person. His point was that being a mechanic in today's economic climate is a safer bet than reading a radiology film, writing a computer program or being an editor.
Food for thought - but who cares because in about 43 minutes or so it will be Miller Time!
I agree with Andy here. Yes, you charge what you think you're worth. But that "worth" has to do with what it costs you to live your life. If you spend 3 hours on a project, you want to know that 3 hours can provide enough revenue for you to do (fill in the blank).
If you moved to NYC or San Fran or someplace similar, you'd quickly find that the rate you're charging isn't "worth" what it was. Therefore, your "worth" for each of those hours isn't what it was. The money you brought in for that 3 hour project isn't going as far as it did, and may no longer even be worthwhile.
I charge more now than I did when I lived in lower cost-of-living areas. I'm still the same developer (I mean, I'd like to think I've improved somewhat), but my hourly "worth" needs to provide me with "x" in order for it to be a worthwhile effort.
Anyway, just my $0.04 (yeah, 'cuz I'm in the Bay Area).
Just a thought.
Overall, I think it's a great idea. There are plenty of companies that need some quick help with a CF or Flex issue that have the cash and would be happy to shell it out for your expertise. My company has shelled out thousands and thousands of dollars for CF training that is, in my opinion, inferior to some of the presentations you have given to user groups.
It is higher than average, but my skills are higher than average (boy I hope that doesn't sound as egotistical as it may).
[/quote]
Egotistical? Not until you made a point of drawing attention to the fact that it might be, no. t just sounded matter-of-fact until then.
It's kind of like the pretty girl of cliche saying "oh... me? I'm not pretty... am I? (go on: tell me I am, one more time)".
You have good skills: there's no problem in operating on that basis.
--
Adam
Don't you let anyone tell you otherwise, cupcake.
@Chris M: I would love to be _really_ associated w/ Adobe. My dream job would be to join their Evangelism team in support of ColdFusion, Flex, and AIR.
But it's no fair when some who doesn't do his homework ask you for help. I receive a lot of email's at my blog, students the offer pay me to make their homework's.
It's your knowledge Ray do what you feel better.
And I know one day your goint to be an Evangelist of Adobe.
I'm a little late on my blog readings this week, but are questions via instant messenger still free?
On a side note, since you do have quite a bit of traffic to your site, have you considered outsourcing paid help requests to folks that you know are well accomplished in a specific area in the event you don't have time or for areas that you are not strong in? I think it would be a good idea to pass some stuff off for a commission better than telling the user that you can't help them because you're not familiar with a particular subject.
Passing stuff on: I do pass stuff on, from time to time, but not often. Frankly, I don't want to worry about it. I really don't even want to be in business for myself. This is just temporary while I wait for the dream job. :)
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